IMO-Who would go through the process of obtaining an FFL only to engage in nefarious activities? The older I get the more I think I’ve slip through a portal and landed in looney tooneville governed by jackasses. This will do nothing to stop criminals doing crime.
From the article: “The “zero tolerance” policy targets federally licensed firearms dealers who “willfully” transfer a weapon to someone prohibited from owning one or ignore a tracing request from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). The ATF would seek to revoke the dealer’s license after the first offense, a senior White House official said.”
I worked at an FFL where my manager was fired for telling two friends “As long as the paperwork looks good I don’t care what goes on once the gun leaves the store.” It was clearly a straw purchase that the owner had to step in on to refuse the sale.
While it’s uncommon that FFLs break the law, is it unreasonable to enforce the current standards for holding an FFL? Part of retaining the license is ensuring the transfer is legal to the best of your knowledge and following through with the ATF. The FFLs that willfully break the law only hurt the 2A because it’s ammo to use against the whole system that’s supposed to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
If every FFL does perform legal transfers and follows through with tracing requests this shouldn’t be an issue for them and they have nothing to worry about. If anything they’ll appreciate the extra business from their competitors being shut down for engaging in illegal activity.
So the AFT will form tasks forces for investigating gun trafficking?
I guess we all know the outcome already and could prevent massive monetary waste.
“We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong.”
The ATF is so short staffed I guarantee this will be more like “We received a tip but don’t have anyone available to investigate, so we did nothing.”
Just look at how many mass shooters were previously investigated or reported to authorities and nothing was done.
We reported blatant straw purchases so often due to being a larger store, at least one a day, and I can count on one finger how many times the ATF actually investigated. Another FFL in the area actually started an email chain between us and every FFL in a 25 mile radius with BOLOs for blatant straw purchases. Sometimes the people were dumb enough to say they’ll go to a different FFL.
If they actually investigated straw purchases and invested money into making background checks more accurate we would see a decrease in violent crime. I’ve had the ATF tell us someone who was delayed/proceeded should have been denied and they needed the 4473 faxed over, legally if they were delayed they could pick up the firearm after 3 days and we did nothing illegal. So they then had to go through the process of retrieving the firearm. If it was more accurate that would happen less, the ATF wouldn’t need multiple agents to retrieve a firearm, and we wouldn’t see people getting wrongfully delayed or denied.
This is more for the FFLs who knowingly transfer a firearm to a prohibited person then ignore the ATF when they request the paperwork for that transfer.
Well we are talking about Joe Biden’s “AFT.” Looks like some ego tripping to me-a bunch of political rhetoric to check the block and say “…see I did something”
I agree, in the past its been “let me pass this law thats already in place, just worded differently, and say we did something.” All this is is grandstanding enforcement of a law that’s already in place by an agency that’s already spread thin. There’s probably a few FFLs they know they’ll shut down for breaking the law, they’ll over report it, then stop reporting all together like this was something new the ATF has never done.
The biggest issue i see (in relation to kitchen table FFLs like me) is with the trace request part. If I am out of town on vacation or whatever, I have zero ability to provide the trace request info within the 24 hour response time expectation. With a zero-tolerance policy, I could lose my license in the blink of an eye.
The same would happen to many FFLs, both large and small. Small for the same reason I stated; large because they have more records to search through.
The impact of this is the AFT can shut down tons of FFLs; of course when you are shut down, your records have to be turned over, so it’s a potential massive confiscation of records. Also, the more FFLs there are, the less centralized the purchases and transfers are - making it much easier to control both the lawful ebb and flow of firearms and the records pertaining to them.
I think the keyword here is “willingly,” if you get one and refuse to cooperate you’ll get shut down. If you reply and say “I’m out of town, I’ll get back to you as soon as I get back” it should be ok. At least ok enough to argue in court when you sue the ATF.
I just browsed through this report on the source of firearms used in crimes in chicago… seems the issue is straw purchasers who lie on the 4473. Of course pursuing that angle would make too much sense… the goal of course is to put the ffl’s out of business not stop the crime: https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/mayor/Press%20Room/Press%20Releases/2017/October/GTR2017.pdf
I’d like to see a report containing more recent stats. Interesting that they didn’t point out the VOLUME of guns sold at those retailers. Obviously, if a gun store is the only FFL in a 10 mile radius, they will have ALL the gun sales, so most crime guns in that area would come from that gun store. Hilarious that Cabelas is on their list.
Shady people go to bigger stores like Cabelas because its a corporate setting where if they get refused they can just complain and get their way. A smaller, more personable, FFL can say “get the ■■■■ out” and not hear another peep from the person. They are at least smart enough to know smaller FFLs will ask more questions.
best I could tell from the report, that was only the traceable firearms used in crimes within the city. Not the untraceable. Of course the allegation is the untraceable is 80% firearms… but I would bet that it is mostly ones with the serial filed off or otherwise removed… and not 80% ones
And see, I would expect them to think the exact opposite. big box stores tend to have additional checks and balances, cameras, papertrails, etc. Smaller FFLs don’t have multiple employees who will see your face and double check your paperwork.
I bought my first handgun at a smaller store, went in for a Smith and Wesson ended up walking out with a Glock because the guy asked me questions and got more personal. Bought my first AR from a big box store and I basically walked in, said what I wanted and the guy handed me paperwork, no other words exchanged. I easily could have been buying it for someone else.
The people I personally refused usually would come in for a hi point. I’d always recommend the S&W SD9VE if they were trying to stay more affordable, half the time they would say that’s all they could afford or ask why it was better and end up buying it. The half I refused would say that’s all their friend could afford and tell me they don’t want a different gun or call their friend. The refusals we typically so dumb they’d spill the beans faster than the dude in transformers.
Speaking of dummies I was recently witness to such foolishness. Waiting in line at my local gun shop the gentlemen in front of me told the shop owner he was buying an AR for his sister. The shop owner explained he could not do that, it was against the law and considered a straw purchase. The gentlemen left and returned with his “sister” she said she was purchasing the AR for her brother. The two left the shop empty handed. I would imagine these are the same type that cannot understand why gun dealers do not direct ship to their house.
The only transfer i have had that I thought was probably a straw purchase was because i got a trace request on it 6 months later. But 2 months after the trace request, the same chick had another item come in. Turns out, her nephew stole her first gun and used it in a crime and the sheriffs department wouldn’t return it to her so she bought another one to replace the original. So I had to eat crow for being prejudiced.
I have never had to turn anyone away due to suspected straw purchases. I have to agree that i am able to ask more questions and get more information than someone in a big box store might care to. I have to ask questions though. If for no other reason than to create small talk while doing the paperwork and background check so they feel comfortable.
That’s a benefit you have. You can really read body language when you are 1 on 1 vs. A big box store that is busy.
Great point. Early on in the business, i had a customer (young guy) who was CLEARLY uncomfortable with the process. He even brought his girlfriend with him. Initially I thought something was wrong with his status as potentially being a prohibited person making him so uncomfortable or that he was going to ask if she could do the transfer. Turns out that he could barely read or write and she was there to help him with what the words on the paperwork said or meant, how to spell things like his city of birth, and which numbers worked for dates. It took him maybe an hour to complete the 4473 between her reading the questions, me translating them into layman terms, him answering me verbally, and her helping him spell and write his answers. I hate that i was initially judgemental, but thankful that i was put into that situation to recognize not everything is what it seems. Afterwards, I was able to find clarification that a helper can do the form for an illiterate buyer as long as the answers come from their mouth. So that made me better at doing transfers going forward.
If Biden’s pick to head the AFT is confirmed I’m afraid the smallest clerical error by a ffl will be very costly.
I have to agree. Only a fool would willingly risk there ffl.