That was my thinking when I went with a pencil profile in my latest build. Don’t care about pinpoint, just want it to be light and all I need is “minute of bad guy”.
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The light, quick and carrying 50 onboard are some of the reasons I love my AR57 ULT. It has a pencil barrel of sorts.
that’s all good reasons… but also this- the new nitride pencil barrels from PSA in 1/7 are crazy accurate and just all around awesome, i had a pencil barrel from dpms that i loved because it was pin point accurate… so it doesn’t surprise me that this awesome barrel manifested into reality at a fraction of what other companies sell pencils barrels this quality for. instead of just a barrel you can get the entire psa lightweight pencil upper 16” that might be lighter than my 7.5”
lol. I thought he meant literal pencils.
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Dang it, you had to mention that…now I’m all horn-dogged up!
mmmmmm…308 JAKL…
hehe that happens… you’re not alone lol
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It’s already been proven nitride is sturdier just not as accurate initially due to the tempered in manufacturing edges and flashing that need to knocked off with a few mags.
I would disagree. It would be interesting to see the stats and specs of ARs used for various reasons, including crime, defense, mass shootings, etc. Most of them are probably if i had to guess just your run of the mill AR. Sure some will be high end with chf like Colt, DD, or FN, and some will be bottom of the barrel also.
I can think of DD, Lead Star, and (Old) DPMS that have been used in crimes in the past few years.
None of what you said was factual in any way. Believe what you want, but it’s nothing but a (misguided if you ask me) opinion. Asking others to take it with an open mind when you clearly don’t have one yourself for looking at PSAs as anything but toys that can’t and shouldn’t be used seriously with no actual numbers, data, or evidence to back it up.
i’m sorry you feel that way, but i too will have to highly disagree with you here. PSA Weapons are indeed SHTF weapons, and are indeed perfectly fine to use as a Serious CWP weapon. Here’s why I think you’re wrong with the items you listed :
- PSA makes barrels that are Chrome lined, and you can even get the CHF from FN barrels (which are chrome lined, btw) as a choice for your particular rifle. PSA also owns their own CHF forge, if you didnt want to or get the FN barrel.
- BCG’s. PSA owns Toolcraft, who is a major BCG manufacturer in the BCG game. PSA uses Toolcraft almost solely, on their rifles. I say almost Solely because on their sabre line, they use bolt carrier groups produced by Microbest, which is also a leading manufacturer in the bcg game. Just because a military contract is awarded to a company does not mean they produce the best stuff… just as being MilSpec does not mean its the best or highest quality out… oh and by the way PSA does have a government Cage code, and can produce things for the military, however they’ve chosen to produce their products more for the civilian line than chasing military contracts.
- PSA rifles in the past have used dry film coated upper receivers, and buffer tubes that are 7075 aluminum. They do also offer 6065 buffer tubes as well, and while i’ve never seen a flat spring in a single military rifle, and i’ve never seen one in a PSA rifle either. I consider these points to be invalid in your argument.
- as for lower parts kits, PSA makes High quality lower parts that are not MIM parts, and you’d be surprised like many of the other parts above, who uses PSA parts in their rifles too, because the fact is PSA’s sister companies who produce these parts for PSA also produce them for many other companies that are just rebranded. Of course this is stuff that is not allowed to be disclosed who uses what, due to NDS agreements and what not. Much like the other companies who use PSA’s barrels, or the toolcraft bcgs. so again, how is this not high quality, durable parts for a SHTF scenario? Oh i almost forgot these small parts are heat treated as well to the standard of the industry. I dont know how you figure PSA doesnt use as you put it “a true milspec fire control group” when in fact they dont only use true milspec or better FCG’s.
- as for the torque used to apply barrel nuts, in many of their rifles they do tend to overtorque them and I don tkno why they do, but Ill tell you i’ve never had one loose or loosen up on me, and being over tight is no problem and does not effect how the rifle runs. that said, PSA uses nothing but the proper tools, and equipment to assemble and make their parts. I dont know where you got the idea that they are a bunch of folks using make shift or incorrect tools, but this is just not the case at all.
- yes occasionally they do have an upper that has a misclocking. but even that is most of the time within mil specs for being able to sight in the rifle and take up the error with your adjustable sights.
- Like any company out there, PSA has both Employees who have many years as an armorer and those who have just started out as armorers. Until you’ve taken a tour of their facilities, and seen and talked to their armorers as many of us have, and all moderators here have, I would be careful throwing accusations about PSA’s Armorers.
- yeah in a shtf situation you dont want your parts breaking, but fact is sh*t happens. I dont care whos parts/guns you use. Mr. Murphy is always there, and he loves to have his way. So by keeping spare parts around for just this reason of being safe so that you can repair your rifle in the case of failure is just smart, no matter who builds it, or what brand it is.
- The military evaluation, known as mil-spec, is the basic minimum level that the us government will accept parts and rifles to be built at. basically it was designed to give the best quality they can for the cheapest price. that is the starting point to me not the end point. . Many of PSA’s parts, as other companies, are better quality than mil-spec, and to me that is a great thing.
- So because of these items above, and others, I’d consider psa a SHTF weapon manufacturer without a doubt.
after all , if all companies build their parts and rifles to mil-spec, then all things should be equal across the board. I’d put my PSA rifles up against ANY manufacturer for torture tests, SHTF or whatever other scenarios and i’d be quite comfortable about using them as the ONLY weapons i have in a SHTF. The same goes for the dagger, in fact i carry one from time to time concealed as well because when it boils down to it, its a glock 19 with a different better, grip. uses the same parts as the G19 3rd gen, and is half or more than half the price. I dont see how you wouldnt consider that a serious CWP weapon.
Again, these are just my reasonings and counter arguments to yours. The greatest thing about America though, is we can all be different, and choose what we each like better, and whatever makes us feel comfortable.
im pretty sure most folks here will agree with me, but i may be surprised that some may agree with you too. That said. Put me in the same category as Guitar Guy as I disagree with you completely.
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I see the dangerous trend continue. Everybody picks the shtf items based on names alone. Several of those fancy names above get their parts from psa.
But that’s not why I’m chiming in here. As far as I know you cannot pick up any and every Glock out of a box and it will run flawlessly. Like any and everything else you win some and you lose some. Some run flawlessly and others might have a few hiccups while there’s a small percentage that will need to be sent back for repair. I would take a clapped out Taurus that has ran 1,000 rounds through it before I pick the Glock that’s brand new out of the box.
Stop getting caught up with names. Run your gear. Run all of your gear and run it well. You keep what works and runs well for shtf. Stop looking at the engraving on the side of the receivers.
My very first PSA AR still runs flawless. I don’t exactly take great care of it, I maintain it but I do not baby it. It could have been cleaned several more times than it has. It could have been oiled several more times than it has. But it runs great every time. If something happens that’s the first one I’m going to grab.
I have other rifles that cost three to four times more than that same exact PSA AR that I just mentioned above. The name on the side is better known than psa. That rifle gives me non-stop problems. It has been sent back to the manufacturer. They have changed parts and inspected it. They have test fired and returned it. I still continue to have problems with it. I would never use it in a shtf situation. Because I know it will get me killed.
I’m going to grab what runs good and I know what runs good in my safe and what does not run good in my safe. And at no point in time when I pick something that my life depends on, am I going to be reading the engraving on the side or worry about who made it.
Another thing I’ve noticed is people’s estimates of round count. Maybe it’s me that’s completely off? So here’s an open question. How many rounds do you really think you’re going to get off when shtf? Do you really think you’re going to wear a barrel out in shtf? I think your round count will be very low, lower than you plan because one you will be taken out. Or you will take someone else out. I do not see extended firefights over several days for extended periods where you’re going to be literally shooting a barrel out. Also if shtf happens to you and you do happen to shoot out your Barrel. Exactly where is all that ammo going to come from? Do you have enough ammo stockpiled in your current location and you are going to hold that location long enough to shoot out your barrel? How big is your backpack? How much can you fit in your backpack? Are you going to hit the countryside with enough ammo to shoot out a barrel?
Any thoughts or rebuttal on that?
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One more thing. Every time I’ve seen Shady people overthrow a government. Ill prepared citizens defend themselves against a tyrannical government. Two sides of people good or bad or both on each side enter a civil war. Any of those crazy scenarios where fighting occurs. I never remember any one side with top of the line weapons. We all know it’s usually a bunch of pissed off people with AKs and flip flops that come out on top.
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Enough of the blogosphere baloney myths and their video game/John Wick gun play. This is an actual SHTF weapon:
Almost 5 million made. Body is the exhaust pipe of a Morris automobile of the time. Spring produced by mattress makers, Welded by a person with maybe four hours training.
Go look at police trade ins and you will find Smith and Wesson, Bushmaster, DPMS Oracles and Colts. All of these, with the exception of the government contractor Colt are “toy” guns. All equipped with the automotive alloy U.S. ordnance has been using since the 1930s, $ 3.00 recoil springs, button rifled barrels and maybe 0.005" of electroplate to prevent corrosion on the barrel.
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This is inaccurate. Heavy bull barrels produce more accurate results because they have more inertia dampening out involuntary muscle movements and trigger induced movement. Heavy barrels also have more mass allowing them to absorb more heat before the residual stress of button rifled and specially CHF warp the barrel and shift the point of impact.
Cut rifling (custom 4140 barrels) are the most accurate because the rifling process does not introduce stresses on the barrel.
Button rifled barrels have some point of impact shift as they heat up because the rifling is made by plastic deformation (shoving a plug under huge force). This leaves residual stress that affects the barrel as it heats.
CHF Barrels the worst because the material is typically deformed 30 % and can not be fully stress relieved. Makers use vanadium alloys because vanadium reduces the scrap rate of CHF barrels compared to 4150. Vanadium reduces the work hardening and induced stress and warping of long thin pieces like barrels.
This is a really long-winded and unnecessary way of actually saying basically the same thing I did. Thicker barrels don’t deform and whip under extreme heat.
If pencils didn’t suffer from that issue, literally everyone would run them 100% of the time. The weight savings comes with a compromise.
The extra weight of the barrel providing “user stability” therefore producing more “accuracy” is an unquantifiable myth if anything. It is exceptionally easier to shoulder a significantly lighter weapon, leaving more energy and concentration for other shooting variables like trigger discipline and if the rifle is benched then the weight, light or heavy, is no longer a variable at all.
Did you read my post at all?
CUT RIFLING thin section barrels do not suffer from point of impact shifts when they heat up.
COLD HAMMER FORGING is what really screws up the barrel but you people are enamored German anything you get overcharge you for an inferior product.
Did you read your own post? Christ almighty I hate guys who are in such a rush to pull an “actshually” and make an overly technical response that was entirely unnecessary and glosses over the actual very simple point.
You probably should’ve called up Ruger’s engineers years ago. You could’ve solved their Mini accuracy issues by telling them the rifling was why their rifle started tossing rounds once it heated up and that they didn’t actually solve the issue with a heavier profile barrel that didn’t flex as significantly under the heat of repeated rounds.
Thinner metal doesn’t deform more under heat stress than thicker metal, it’s all 100% on the rifling. Sure. Thanks for the lesson, Marcel. 
Everyone walk away before you say something you shouldn’t.
@California_Refugee , your first long reply is wonderful and accurate, and I couldnt agree more.
you’re second reply, however, is even more so. But i must admit, in that case, since i have flip flops already, im guessing im just going to have to grab my PSA AK GF5 too!!
@Marcel_01 more than not, you’re right. the Shtf weapons tend to be anything you can find in my opinion. and that looks like just that. lol.
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