Archery is the same way. I hunt with guys that buy a new $1200-$1500 riser every year because it’s ‘new’. I’ve been using the same Athens Solace for 5 years now.
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While I’ve never purchased a complete “built” AR, all my builds are “mil-spec” where it needs to be and “better” of the good/better/best continuum where it counts all while trying to stay with something reasonably priced:
Lower & upper receivers: PSA and Poverty Ponies
BCG’s: Toolcraft nitride
FCG’s: PSA’s EPT or a comparable one from Right To Bear in FL
Barrels: Faxons
Buffer tube: PSA
Various little build parts for the lower and upper: PSA mainly
Handguards: mostly from STNGR
Stocks/furniture: Magpul, MFT, or SBA.
Charging handles: BCM, Breek Arms
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it’s not in question that you love PSA, just as its not in question that I love PSA. This is a healthy discussion/debate about the differences and why folks think what they think.
im sure that quality control has in the past needed a lot of work. im also sure that PSA has been working hard to get that quality control up, and that they are aiming to have as good of quality control as any other big name manufacturers like DD or whomever you have as a top tier manufacturer. The fanboys however will never believe it of PSA so trying to convince them of the increase in PSA’s QC and the quality of their products is probably a moot point as itll never happen. It’s a shame as it will be their loss in the end, as PSA is making some awesome products, and just wait you aint seen nothing yet!! I do still stand by my statement of if you knew how many percentage of returns/issues versus sales you’d be shocked at how low it is and how it compares to those like DD. I do however disagree with you, i do expect a company to keep cost low and have high end quality and quality control that any small high end builder has. It is not impossible, its just difficult to do. And when it is done, very few will recognize or see it as again only the bad is bragged about… not the good.
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I agree that Daniel Defense is overpriced. However, I did see a documentary video showing the extensive QC processes they have, which far exceeds mil spec. Apparently they don’t “batch check” one item out of every 1000 as is sufficient to reduce production of junk, but they inspect EVERY component. That’s where some of your money goes, I guess.
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That is the intent of my original response. I will bet there are any number of “expert” reviewers, who when comparing different rifles, will automatically shove the PSA to the side and declare it as entry level, strictly due to price and early reputation. Forget the base model PSA AR15. Look at one of their upgraded offerings with MOE furniture for $700 and compare that to DD.
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Would like to a blind comparison. Cover all identifying logos etc and see if anyone can tell the difference. Not talking how it feels, accuracy and reliability.
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Interesting posting related to this one
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I totally agree that no one will ever believe how great PSA really is. I live in Charleston and have been a fan since they opened the Summerville store how ever many years ago that was. There isn’t any other manufacturer anywhere in the world that can or would even attempt to do what PSA has. There proliferation business model is the greatest thing to happen to the gun industry in a very long time. Firearms already run on very thin margins. Even expensive rifles are not making any company ■■■■ tons of money. With those thin margins keeping cost down is super important. I also agree that most people including myself would be surprised with how few quality control problems PSA has. Just based on the scale they produce compared to higher end companies would cause them to have a higher return amount even if the percentage was the same. So I def see where you are coming from and agree PSA has come a long way. Think of it like buying a Honda vs a custom built million dollar car. You know they went over that custom build with a fine tooth comb and Honda does a great job at qc but just based on the scale of production your going to have more Hondas out there with problems. Also the people that spend all that money on something are less likely to complain when something goes wrong because they want to justify the expense. Still think the difference between the 2 kinds of manufacturers is quality control. That is why they cost more. That is why people live them so much. Buy once cry once.
I love that series. Really shows how rugged and dependable an ar15 can be. It also how great the rifles PSA builds are. Sotar has been very educational for me. I love his marked cam pins from fcd.
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Snob appeal. I had a Rolex, but my $50 Citizen Eco-Drive keeps better time.
There are some things like erosion resistant barrels that are nice, but unless I was going to live another hundred years in a post apocalyptic world, PSA guns are fine for me. I don’t shoot competition, and if the barrel shoots out, I’ll pop a new one in.
I figure I’d rather have a PSA and $1,000.00 more than some of the higher ticket guns and no $1,000.00. For me, PSA allowed me to have ARs in multiple calibers, something I could never afford with the sporst car guns.
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You’re right about thin margins in firearms. I owned a gun store once. I could sell someone a $300 pistol, a holster and a box of ammo, and make more on the ammo and holster than the pistol.
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And now it’s the 6.5 PRC.
Which is VERY similar to the 270 Winchester Short Magnum.
.013 diameter difference. The 270 WSM is slightly less over-bored.
Though you can’t knock Economies of Scale. They’re building lots of 6.5 PRC.
Maybe if they built a large production run of 270 WSM, the 6.5 PRC would still out-sell it.
What makes the PSA Ar 14 better for me is the 5.56 chamber will allow you to use the .203. Many of the others would not allow that feature. Granted this was a couple years ago when I was deciding what rifle to build. IMHO The PSA is a top of the line if you build it yourself and add the extras. For the price it cannot be beat.
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That may be the case for when it’s made correctly. I’m talking about bad batches. Multiple people getting the same malfunctions from Tula.
It doesn’t happen as far as I know with 20" barrel/(rifle length) gas system. 16" may need buffer weight/spring to make it work consistently. This is not a malfunction rather a physics/Newton’s Law of motion problem. For target practice (not competition match) I can live with occasional cycling issues. For home defense I have Federal brass cartridges. I will not expend them on paper targets. But to each his or her own. I bought a good amount of TULA when it was $3.99/20rds. Bought .45ACP and .40 S&W too for $8.99/50rds. Only wish I could have predicted COVID and Biden the ruiner. Would have bought lifetime supply of TULA steel and brass ammo.
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so it seems that we’ve been talking about the same thing then there. and are in agreement. you know the funny thing is ive seen 10s of 100’s of reviews and stress tests on PSA rifles, by various internet youtube reviewers and they all come out surprised at the quality, but wont back off of fanboy to other “high named” rifles. regardles of who it is, noveske, larue, etc etc etc…
a blind comparison does sound interesting. but sad thing is if you’re an expert in AR’s you can tell who made what usually by their parts a lot of the time. It’s hard to miss a DD rail, or a Geiselle rail, etc…
@davidlandonjr i watched those videos on the fire ressurection and wow… what a video series… quite awesome. i really enjoyed that.
@kriscbt while i agree with much of what you said, im curious on your opinion regarding your last statment. Does the Buy once cry once apply to PSA rifles to you? I.e. if you were to have 2000.00 to go buy a new AR, what would you buy. a PSA or …
@LBL isnt the 6.5 PRC what the military is going to be going to? i dont know, which is why im asking.
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I read the new caliber was going to 6.8 Remington SPC, but I don’t know if that was final. Makes you wonder if Lake City 5.56 was going to be obsolete without Biden’s BS.
yeah i dont know if it is going to be obsolete or not. i do know AAC is going to be producing a crap ton of ammo here soon, soo hopefully whatever biden tries on lake city wont matter much with the rise of AAC. but only time will tell.
interesting about 6.8 rem spc. i dont have a gun that shoots that either… but if they go to it ill have to build one at least.
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It is 6.8, but not SPC.
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Proprietary Sig cartridge?