Sub MOA is standard? It’s an AR-10, not a precision-built bolt-action. Sure, they are capable of sub-MOA with the right ammo, conditions, optic, and shooter, but that’s a lot of variables to consider.
It sounds like you’ve been throwing random parts at it thinking it’ll solve what your perception of bad accuracy is rather than tuning your handloads to your barrel’s preference.
I also don’t understand what you’re saying with a loose barrel nut and a “badly designed” buffer system.
wait.. nope that’s that right there sabre is gen3 also.. however!! this will definitely work with your aero upper:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/dpms-dp-10-stripped-lower-receiver.html
I hand load for whatever rifle I shoot and try to match the ammo to the particular rifle. How accurate is accurate enough, smaller groups is the only answer. I know a shooter with far more experience and far better equipment than I can afford that is never happy until his target has only a ragged hole. That is the goal.
I can do that with factory ammo and a factory gun……
“badly designed” buffer system, too fing long by the depth of three .25 cent pieces.
PSA uses their own proprietary length tube and spring. Seriously, did you research what you wanted before you bought?
no i didn’t that’s how i ended up with so many different parts..
I know some very qualified snipers that can’t do that so if you are near Pineland there is a job waiting for you.
You are probably a company shill and I am interested in data not the company line, have a nice day.
Not a company shill. Just trying to figure out all your issues.
You bought a factory gun. You changed the barrel and trigger. You use hand loads. You think an upper that wont fit the lower will give you more accuracy. You dont know what rail you have. You changed the buffer system. And you want all that to be sub-moa. You couldn’t even describe your gun except that it was 20” and you said the barrel nut flexed.
Several folks here have tried to help and you have simply danced around things.
Reading is hard for you, I understand. Reread the posts. Now have a nice day.
I still don’t understand how their own proprietary design is “bad” by default. I use it in my PA-10, which I built from scratch, and it functions fine.
Not a lot of what you’ve said has made sense, and you’ve thrown a TON of variables into play which could affect the accuracy of your weapon between modifications and hand-loaded ammo but you’ve resorted to blaming the gun itself.
If you had a factory stock weapon and were shooting factory ammo, it would be a lot easier to narrow down and diagnose what your issue could potentially be, but with all that you’ve done it’s basically an impossibility for anyone here to figure out exactly what you should do to achieve what you believe to be a “standard” of consistent sub-MOA accuracy. I’m not sure what you’re expecting.
Myself, I consider the Aero barrels as a hit or miss. Some people have good results, some do not. Myself included.
I would suggest a Criterion as a base line replacement. ( YMMV )
Some of my groups from my Criterions have been outstanding. Both in.308 and 6.5CM.
With ammo my Criterions liked and the “tuning / accuracy” tricks I use… those Criterion barrels make me look like a skilled marksman… Lol
Both images with OEM ammo the barrel liked.
6.5CM… 140gr Horn. AG , 22” Criterion, 100yds, benched, scoped… etc
.308 155gr Hornady AG, same details..
As mentioned… ammo Played a lot in these results… ( BTW I pulled both fliers, as I got giddy from the good groups )
A few things I would suggest checking … make sure the gas tube interacts”smoothly” with the gas key, Lap the uppers face smooth, Loctite / shim the barrel in place.
Make sure you have no contact between the Gas Block and handguard… not even from any add on MLok screws.
And allow for barrel break-in, and try different ammo brands / bullets.
I tend to prefer a snug upper to lower “fit”, so do anything you can to make “wielding” the firearm more consistent.
BTW, what is your buffer weight setup ? And how have you adjusted the Adj. GB ?
As for the buffer style/ length used by PSA , I have used both the “Armalite” length and the PSA ( DPMS )
for 308’s …both with heavy buffer weights.
Both styles ( patterns ) have been OEM from PSA.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/PSA-when-did-you-guys-switch-the-buffer-system-length-on-the-PA10-/301-286585/
I haven’t seen any noticable differences, when tuned properly , via buffer weight and the Adj. GB.
As for PSA changing between the 2 patterns.. and no offense , I haven’t any difference that was worth while.
I doubt he has one. Given that he wont post a Pic im betting a $20 BSA AliExpress optic.
FWIW, the PSA OEM barrel nut, didn’t seem to mind me butchering it, as seen in my link.
Can you give some more of your rifles build specifics ?
What parts are you currently using ? Specifics , please.
And calling anyone a shill , is not helpful.
Frankly , some of your comments obviously come from 308AR.com … and those guys are another story.
Lots of great info over there… and some great guys, but …. some of the demeanor of a few members, is needlessly outlandish.
That… would be another story … for another time. ( Still got that recording )
And that is water under the bridge.
Everyone’s opinion is respected here. And we all know…. YMMV’s when it comes to any firearm ! Lol
coincidentally… i have a stripped aero lower and stripped psa gen3 upper..
I’m going to have to preface this with the statement that i think you really didnt have / dont have much experience if any at all with the AR-10 platform, and i’d be surprised if you had much with the ar-15 platform as well… but that is ok. thats why we’re here.. however, theres alot throughout this whole thread that has me scratching my head, chuckling, wondering w.t.f. and much more at times..
I’ve never, and i mean Never heard of anyone doing this, on any Upper receiver when installing any barrel for an AR-Anything. whats the point? does the barrel not fit? lapping this does nothing unless the barrel will not fit and seat in the upper without issue. who/where did you get this information from?
this im still scratching my head. i’ve never seen a flexible barrel nut, from any company. not even davidson defense has ever shown me one of those. i just dont know what or how they’d flex and what theyd flex against. if theres an upper receiver, with a barrel in it, and a barrel nut on it, screwed down tightly and torqued into place properly, then what could even think of making that barrel nut flex? certainly not firing the weapon.
im glad you brought this up. what rifle are we actually talking about here anyways. Is this a factory built by PSA fully AR-10 in .308/7.62x51? Or is this one you built? or is it one that someone else built that you got from a third party? Why do you wish this? because its not shooting sub moa? what was wrong with the recoil buffer system that needed a replacement Tube/spring/and buffer? cause im willing to bet that armalite parts were probably made on machines owned by the PSA mothership somewhere along the line… so essentially it may wear another name but… well i digress.. Why do you say the OEM setup was Too long out of the box?
whats not an optimal design? since its not a particular issue with your rifle?
do you happen to have a link to the one you bought on the web page so we can tell what options it came with originally. the B.A. barrel is fine, and yeah 20/18 inches is marginally different in weight, i assume they’re both the same gas length systems? or is your new 18" barrel a Mid length Gas system and the 20 inch was a rifle length system?
As GG says, the reason i ask for the link to the gun you bought is so i can tell what one you bought.. there are just too many to guess which one you have that you bought a 20" AR10 from PSA. Plus they have various levels of barrels too… so there may be some differences there as well. Would i say a B.A> barrel is better than a PSA barrel.. no not usually i would not. ymmv though.
well kinda.. it is a DPMS pattern receiver set yes.. but its proprietary to PSA.. its not a Low , nor a High rail upper either, its kinda just a little higher than a low, but thats why we can use the low rail upper handguards.. there are a ton of differences from each AR10 manufacturer to each ar10 manufacturer and this is because as we all know, there is and has never been any Military standard ever set for the AR10. While the Armalite AR10 was the original patterned rifle that first developed and spawned this larger platform than the ar-15, it is vastly different from other AR-10 uppers and lowers.. That is why as GG says, you are better off with the AR10, to buy all AR10 parts from the same manufacturer.. I.E. If youre going to run with an say Aero AR10 upper receiver, then you really should buy the Aero AR10 lower receiver, and the Aero AR10 upper and lower parts kits. variances can be minute microscopic even, but they are there in them from manufacturer to manufacturer.
these are also two valid points. some rifles do in fact need these things..
Sub MOA is not standard, it is the Goal. * A minute of angle is 1/60th of one degree, creating a cone of fire that gets wider as distance increases.
For instance :
Distance Scaling:
So Sub-MOA is a firearm that consistently groups shots within one inch or less at 100 yards
Now i See that you’re using custom hand loads that you make, so you’re quite versed in ammo then, have you tried breakin of the rifle with standard old fashioned mass produced ammo? or in the very least have you tried various break in weights of your hand loads of different weights of ammo?
and honestly before we get soooo far out there, did we ever setup exactly how accurate the rifle is to start with? i mean now its got a new barrel and new buffer setup so its gotta go through all the new break in again… but still how does it preform now? got any photos of the target examples of how she’s shooting now?
i’m not even going to get into your optics, and how you shoot, playing a big role too.. we’ve already opened up too many cans with the ammo, and changing all these parts out already and stuff.. heck its like 3 different rifles now as it is. Im really curious how the rifle shot as it was as it originally came from PSA unless it was a home build / custom build by some other third part.
PSA’s AR-10’s buffer tube is longer than others on some of their rifles for a reason. theres videos on this on youtube from psa last i remembered.d as for badly designed, well i dont know who origionally came up with it other than Stoner wasnt it with the original ar’s ? many folks put buffer pads in the tubes to quiet the springs down, or soften the recoil down too sometimes. just .02 there..
there are no company shills on this site. He is like me, a non employed volunteer moderator of these forums. that are trying to help you out on what you posted as issues.. but honestly you’ve confused me more and more with each post it seems.
why the hostility? you’re making it awefully hard for folks to help you out.
THANK YOU. Don.. .Thank you. very well recapped.
OK!!! now you’ve said some stuff that actually makes sense!!!
I still have to wonder about the lapping of the upper cause the uppers i have gotten from PSA on the AR10 and ar15 platforms have been such a snug fit and such a smooth machining there is one, no room for shims, and 2, y ou never want to use loctite there.. you if anything want to use a very very light /thin layer of antiseize there, because if you dont and you have a problem after its been used for a long time the various heat cycles will practically weld the barrel to the upper receiver together so you cannot replace either if there were an issue needing that done. The whole point of the barrel Nut is to do exactly what you’re stating you would shim for, is to hold the barrel tightly in place. This is why you use the proper tools, and a vice, and a torque wrench, and tighten all parts properly. I’ve never and i’ve assembled quite a few hundred AR’s in the past, seen an upper where there is enough room in between the space where you put the barrel into the upper receiver. the barrel extensions are machined to so tight a tolerance as are the upper receivers opening, there is never any room to put a piece of paper in between them much less shims.
having any contact between the handguard and anything on it to the barrel and gas block and gas tube defeats the purpose of having a free floating handguard in the first place. people tend to forget this when they want all these ultra thin handguards but yet are upset cause their flashlight or bipod wont attach where they want it cause it hits their gas block or tube. …
Right… but the important question there is though… did it flex when you were doing that?
Amen.. And i appreciate you noticing, and posting that. Thank you for that. It is a nice thing to hear that as those of us that moderate have tried to keep it a fair and open area for discussion with respect, fun, the ocassional pick on, but only as long as everyone knows its just in fun. We’re here to help each other, and enjoy our hobby together, and support and get information from /on PSA and their wonderful products!
now dont you go putting that together just to pose for photos to post up here… to show how much the differences are lol.
