I would love to hear some talk about Social Security that isn’t on the two extremes.
1- even looking at it will make Grandma starve (people over 48)
2-end it today F**k everyone who has put in for years (people under 35) Here is my take
Social Security is SO bad, it can be improved for up coming generations & still take care of the people too old to benefit from the fix.
There will be a cost that will fall on the young in the work force now, but it will be outweighed by the benefit of getting there money even partly (20%) out of SS
I did a little ruff math (I’ll try to link below) , but simply put, if we allowed 30 year olds to invest as little as 20% of what they & their employer put into SS, they would be so much better off. We could ask them to put in 80% but draw at retirement as if they had only put in 60% and they would still be MUCH better off & 20% could be use to bolster SS until the 100 presenters pass away.
It would mean the same Social Security for those too old to use the change but changes enough to add $208,000 more in total retirement funds (in real terms) for the 30 year old who invests 20% and give away 20% to shore up the system. https://x.com/i/grok/share/1vSievaOSTcXZw81aq0STb69W
I would love to hear any thoughts that aren’t
1-never ever touch it
or
2- Burn it all down
I’ve honestly never really gave it that much thought other than how much i wish they’d stop taking from my paychecks, because i dont believe that i’m going to see any of it anyways. I’ve had this particular mindset/opinion since i pretty much became an adult in my chosen field of employment.
I realize that this may be on one of the extremes you’re talking about not discussing, but i feel that it is the simple truth after the congress has raided the accounts like it was their personal bank. when i first learned what social security was, I had thought it ws a great plan. for use for people who do not have a retirement, or a way to support themselves, once they get old where they cannot work, or ill where they cannot work and support themselves.
your numbers sound like it makes sense.. but i must admit im pretty number dumb. i am interested in seeing what the others on the forum have to say about what you’ve said, and if there is any cons. or arguments against it.
I’m more of the burn it all down, small government type myself. Welfare systems create dependency. This is the problem. Why should we hand over money to a very obviously irresponsible government (they spend more than they make) when we could invest our money how we like? You don’t plan for retirement? You die a pauper. Obviously there are cases where an unfortunate event wipes us clean of our funds, trust me; I know. However as a small business owner I am currently struggling to hire because of crazy taxes. An honest livable wage where I live is 25 an hour. I would have to pay $28 an hour in government fees for that employee. Bringing my cost to $53 an hour to hire at a livable rate. Just one example. Personally I want as many government cuts as possible. Economically we wont see the return for years. But this has been a growing problem for a long time. It will take hard work for us to have a good economy again.
Back to SS, if we have higher living wages and are less dependent on the government to hand us a pacifier all the time, (this system was created by John d Rockefeller who publicly stated he was working to create the best employees not leaders) we can invest our money wisely and (or) need less money to live on anyway!
The government has created systems to keep us pacified and dependent on them. If you don’t believe me, go to one of our fine native American reservations, where they get free school, free healthcare, free hunting, free money deposited monthly and you will see very nice cars parked next to an old single wide. Why? They could literally get any college degree for free and do anything, but they (the vast majority) would rather live in a single wide than attempt leadership. Social security is just a way to numb and pacify us to be dependent on the government.
Cleaning up all the fraud going on in SSI will help it survive. When one finds out how many are playing the system is a REAL EYE OPENER !!
Having been in FD/EMS quite some time [and I’m out 14vears} we saw so many on disability that were nothing but scammers. My son is there now and our talks prove it’s even worse now. The illegals and deadbeats have the city hospitals so jammed up - you go to the ER and you sit on a gurney in the hallway for hours or overnight.
So many think an Ambulance is a taxi to take them to the ER which they use as their family doctor. Many think the Ambulance will bring them back home too.
This country is ****** without some serious fixing. He’s trying. BUT…
Look at all the morons who do not want it fixed.
In general we agree that social security is a nearly worthless Government scam. ALSO
In general we agree that social security is the major or only system between millions of retirees, and the wolf at the door.
My goal is a weening way from the first without throwing the elderly to the wolves.
I think 20% would be a start, some people would fail, but as a group if the 30 year olds could show it was working. When they hit forty we up the next group of 30 year olds to 25% they in vest, pay in 75% and draw at retirement 55% Ten more years 30% , 70% & 50%
In 80 years you would have people investing 60% paying in 40% and taking out Zero.
Once everyone is taking out zero. . . there is no payout & no reason to pay in.
It could go faster but we are talking Government so 80 years to slowly choke off funding of what might be the worlds biggest scam seems about right.
The thing people will soon realize is that you can’t give your unused social security money to your kids or church or whatever, when you & the wife pass the SYSTEM keeps what’s left.
But not so the percentage you invest. Social security is so bad I have worked since I was 14 & paid in that whole time. I started my 1st Individual retirement arrangements (IRA OR 401K) at 38 (I think) yet 30 years of investing in that will pay me much more then 54 years of paying into social security.
I agree with you that many would suffer without SS as they have become dependent on it and it was marketed extremely well as a way for you to retire without working at it. IMO the solution is far simpler than more math to try to fix the problem. People need to depend on each other, and take care of their old instead of depending on the government. Historically speaking this has how it has been since the beginning of time.
Student: I’d like to learn about finance and how to be responsible with money.
Teacher: Shut up and square dance.
As a society we have failed to teach kids from an early age the importance of financial security and how to make good decisions. Our middle and high schools are more obsessed with sports than lessons on sustainability and responsibility. That’s probably not a popular perspective, but it’s true nonetheless.
We certainly don’t teach money management in grade school America (I’m sure a few places do)
I got on this tangent because I asked a 34 year old middle manager “what percentage are you putting in your 401k ?” His answer was “I don’t know if I signed up for 401k or not.” I started asking Drivers and almost to a man, NONE had so much as looked at their 401k in years, many had NEVER looked at it after signing up as a new hire.
It seems like much of Blue Collar America doesn’t even think about retirement money until about 57-60.
Most are too afraid of it to even log in and look at it!
We are a giant company that actually matches & then pays in Profit Sharing but most of the worker level employees know so little about it they see putting in even 5% as “lost money”
We become Imperialists. We take Western Canada and Greenland and the funds from there go to support the people who already paid into social security all the while we create a new currency backed by Gold.
Both of those places having incredibly high concentrations of things we need, easy to get, including things not particularly listed in terms of rare earths. Those will be needed for Optimus and other robotic automations which will be applied to work on factories, farms, and a plethora of services.
The lot of thinking now is pre-scarce society versus a post scarce society in which production and servicing is overwhelmingly done automatically. Thus social security aka taking care of our people who are old won’t be a problem come 2030/2033. Things will be done based on how fast you feed the machines raw materials and access to electricity. Post scarce society is cheap to nearly free if done properly.
Alas there’s a lot of other issues that come a long with AI and in the world, but. Yup.
When I worked for our government contractor I tried explaining to some guys what “pre tax” meant and how much they’d be saving by contributing that money to their 401s instead of getting it taxed by pocketing it.
And how the money in the 401 will compound.
And how if you REALLY needed it, you can take a loan out against the 401 and pay it back directly out of your check, which the interest on said loan would go directly back into the 401.
There were guys making $35 an hour that were passing on a pretax contribution with a 6% company match. 10% contribution on that pay rate with a 6% match would’ve been roughly $900 a month in their retirement funds…and that’s before any potential gains.
As someone who worked until I was 74+, I have eperienced large and small corporations and had my own business for 11.5 years. I have also been through several market crashes and survived major industry disruptions. Each of these downturns either devastated my investments , or forced me into career changes. The only constants were Social Security and Medicare, which I paid into throughout my working life. At 81, I am reaping the benefits from both of these programs. I agree that the government has abused its obligation to maintain the solvency of these programs, while adding to who is entitled to them. However, both can easily be fixed, if congress wanted to, but they dance to big money instead. While SSI has an inflation escalator clause in its payouts, there is no provision to increase the upper income limits of who pays into the system. Likewise the government pays no interest to SSI for the money it has siphoned out of the fund. Rectifying these two situations would return solvency to SSI, even with the shrinking work population. Medicare has a different solution. The overall cost of medicine in the U.S. Is much higher than in any other first world country, with poorer outcomes. The relationship between Insurance companies, Hospital chains, Doctor alliances and big Pharma, are all designed for maximum profit. They spend more on advertising tahn they do on research aand development. In fact, many of the drugs, innovations, and new procedures are developed in medical schools largely funded by the government. These are then monetized by the industry and marked at great profit. This should be changed to benefit the tax payers rather than special interest groups. This can only happen, if we hold our elected officials to follow the laws. And this will not happen as long as they can be bought and/or threatened with dark money. Get rid of the special interest money and vote out the people who have been corrupted by it, instead of trying to privatize these programs. Otherwise you may end up with nothing when you reah retirement age because no other system is guaranteed.
Thank God my Dad taught us just about everything mentioned here.
Thank God my wife’s Dad taught his coven the same.
Now she and I reap the rewards of WORKING HARD and SAVING. Like jackhammering blue stone in 15 deg weather for an extra paycheck.
We’re not rich , but comfortable.
We are grateful everyday.
