So I just bought my first AR15 - PSA “Sabre” Forged 16" 5.56 FN CHF CL., 1:7 twist. I’ll be heading to the range soon (bench), planning to get it on paper and group test assorted ammo at 50yds before moving out to zero at 100. Right now I have some PMC xTAC 55gr FMJ, AAC 55gr FMJ, M855 62gr and AAC 77gr OTM.
I’m used to my handloads in 25-06 and .308 out of bull barrels looking for clover leaves. I know not to expect that from this platform but do want to get the most out of it to pop hogs in the head at 100yds. Optic is a PA SLX LPVO 1-6x24 with the ACSS Nova reticle.
Seems like a logical approach, yes? What should I expect and any ammo suggestions (especially for the hogs)? Also, how quick will this barrel heat up and start walking the POI?
Thanks for any help!
The aac 77gr OTM is some of the best ammo they make. I wouldnt be surprised it your rifle likes it best.
Cool, I see some great sales right now but until I see the groups I hesitate to buy anything in bulk.
Smart move. You never know for 100% sure what ammo your rifle will or won’t like until you send it. All the analysis in the world of grain weights, twist rates, barrel lengths, etc won’t get you as far as finding out first hand.
Welcome to the PSA forum! Bust some hogs and pork in the skillet! Fine tune and you will love that CHF
i think you will get the best groups with the 55gr, either aac or pmc.. 1/7 is the best option for the 62gr, but i still suspect the 55gr to out perform the others especially with a lpvo
edit: oh i dont shoot the wild life you probably need a bigger bullet.. i just hit targets, tbh i would use the gf3 with irons to hunt at 100yards
I’ll second this comment. Your choices are pretty good for test ammo and you have a solid approach. The only one that might not be great is the 62gr green tip because it usually isn’t the best accuracy ammo to begin with. With at least one of those ammo types you should be a ~2-3" group at 100y. Tighter than 2" is possible, but other than random chance the only clover you’re likely to pick will be one-leaf clovers. I’m not throwing off on the barrel or rifle in general, but it’s an AR in 5.56 so have reasonable expectations, which it sounds like you already have.
With that barrel, assuming you’re not full speed mag dumping, you probably won’t notice a significant change until the second or even third mag. It will have enough variability that heat doesn’t show up that quickly. Unless you find an ammo type your rifle really hates, you should be solid at the 100 yard distance you’re hunting.
Adding onto this, 2-3 MOA from an out-of-the-box 16” AR is excellent accuracy, don’t fall for the internet hype and ridiculous standards acting like every AR needs to (or should be) 1 MOA or under to be considered good. You will see keyboard commandos and hardos saying things like that out there and claiming their guns all hit crazy MOA numbers. They don’t.
They’re ARs. They aren’t precision rigs. The military considers 4 MOA as acceptable accuracy, and so should you.
Thanks for the comments. Got the gun cleaned today and put the scope on, going to bore sight and hopefully hit the range next week. Hopefully I can get the 2-3 inch groups. If I have to I’ll get some more expensive ammo. Where I hunt is tight and I only get a few shots off before they scatter so I won’t be dumping a mag at them. I’d like to get enough accuracy to hit the base of the neck on a deer as well if the opportunity arises.
The ammo your gun likes may or may not be the more expensive option.
I think the soft point 55gr kill anything but especially hogs at 100 yards. Just whatever manufacture you like. I don’t think it takes a lot of work, 55gr soft point hogs die instantly at 100 yards.
welcome aboard @kroos we’re glad to have you!!
that sabre is the top line of PSA rifles, im sure you’ll be quite satisfied with it.
Indeed it is. The first AR-15 I owned personally was a DPMS Oracle “optics ready” carbine, which I still have. Out of the box, it shot around a minute of angle with nothing done to it but a good scrubbing of the bore and the mounting of a 12X optic, I used a handload duplicate of Federal 69 grain Gold Medal Match out of respect for its 1:9 twist barrel on that initial outing. It’ll still average around a minute of angle with that load.
I can instantly convert it to a 2 to 3 minute rifle by simply shooting surplus LC M-193 ammo through it.
Six months ago, I assembled a dedicated CMP Games “Modern Minlitary Rifle” on a stripped Anderson lower. I used a Rock River Arms 2-stage National Match trigger and high speed hammer kit. Everything else came from a PSA 20" Freedom Classic kit.
After I got the lower assembled, I removed the muzzle device from the barrel so I could inspect the crown and fix it if necessary. I removed the barrel from the upper receiver and used .001" shim stock to get a tight fit of the barrel extension to the receiver along with green Loc-Tite as bedding compound. I used barrel nut torque as a means of tuning the barrel harmonics to the 77 grain SMK XTC load I shoot out of it.
The result is a rifle that, in spite of a “government profile” barrel that isn’t “free floated,” will average 1.25 minutes of angle for 10 shots in 70 seconds or slightly less. That makes it slightly more mechanically accurate than the National Match M-1A I bought for DCM service rifle matches before the “mouse gun” ruled the firing line roost. That was a 1.5 minute rifle.
But, again, all I have to do to convert my dedicated CMP target rifle from a 1.25 MOA shooter to a 3-minute rifle is feed it old surplus LC M-193 ammo. Less drastic, but still out of bounds of acceptable, are the results from shooting secant-ogive bullets instead of tangent ogive bullets out of it.
As I did not bother trying the PSA 20" Freedom Classic upper as it came out of the box, I can’t know whether that barrel shimming and bedding stuff I did made it shoot better or worse than would have if I’d have left it well enough alone, but as it stands, if I don’t land a shot inside the 10 ring, it isn’t a rifle problem, but a marksmanship problem.
I also know that 1.25 MOA or better is more fun for me at the range than 2 to 3 MOA is.
I use the 70 grain Hornady CX in a handload over TAC powder. It is, more or less, a doppelganger for the .250 Savage load I formerly shot out of a 20" Ruger M-77 RL Ultralight. Same “up to 300 pounds and up to 300 yards” use, same penetration and same wound channel volume. Hit a critter in the heart with it and it dies just as dead, just as quick, as if I shot it in the same place with my old .250 Savage, it just does what it does with slightly flatter trajectory and slightly better wind-drift resistance, owing to greater muzzle velocity and a higher G1 BC for the bullet at .392.
When I shoot pigsfor table fare, I prefer to shoot them when they’re about the size of a mature javalina -around 50 pounds on the hoof. For that, I use a 60 grain Barnes TSX handload from my 16" 1:9 DPMS Oracle is more than enough gun. Pop and flop, every time..
People complain about unleaded bullets not leaving much of a blood trail, but the pigs I shoot have enough fat on them to kind of spoil blood trail joy no matter what they’re shot with, and it you hit them in the heart or drill them in the noggin, you won’t need a blood trail, anyhow.
So, just an update. Bore sighted the Sabre and went to the range today. Took 2 shots to have it 1" high at 60yds. (Couldn’t do 50 because there’s a hill at 25yds that I couldn’t see over from the bench). Anyway, had seven varieties of ammo. Everything grouped 2" or less. Took the 3 tightest and went to 100yds. AAC 62gr Black tip went from 1.275 to 2.4". The AAC 75gr Black Tip went from 1.14 to 2.4". Oddly the AAC 70gr TSX went from 2" down to 1.4". Got hot so I quit, lol. Pretty happy for my first time with an AR. Didn’t fiddle with the gas block as it seemed to be gassed perfectly. More trips and testing ahead!