Norton Shopping Guarantee?

General Discussion Anything Non-Firearm Related
1

Ok I searched for this topic and didn’t find anything. This is kind of a rant about privacy invasion so sensitive, thin-skinned folks will want to skip this post.

Just placed a PSA order and got an email about the Norton Shopping Guarantee that I did not ask for and certainly don’t want!!! Do I really want Norton/Lifelock in my personal business, especially if it is gun-related? No, not at all! I wish PSA would rethink this invasion of privacy. What if Norton joins the ESG (if they haven’t already) and decides that gun-related purchases are evil?

No thanks, Norton, you can shove your transparent attempts to spy on me. Wow, I hope PSA does rethink this and I don’t have find a vendor that respects customers more, that would definitely be a disaster!! PSA has probably the best values in the country today overall.

Just realized that PSA might not have a choice, it might be something to do with their credit card processor or some such thing. Still, maybe they can pressure the service provider to be more ethical.

Rant concluded. Now I guess I need to dig out my fire suit….

2

It actually protects you should you need it. Just ignore it and move on. Your CC info is compromised the minute you sign up for the card.

3

Very true as far as the CC goes. That’s why I use the card less these days. It’s not just the data collection I’m concerned about, however, but the trend as far as the direction this data collection is going and especially the way idiots make assumptions about who we are based on the corrupt and incomplete data they gather.

This is probably too complex a topic for a brief forum post, something better covered in magazine articles or tv documentaries. I might end up deleting the post if it becomes too incendiary, which was not the intent, despite the seemingly provocative rhetoric.

it all started when I was looking briefly at this ESG business and activist companies using the intel they gather on us to make decisions about who we are. Somewhere along the line, I wondered if we could successfully resist, could voice our disapproval, and could possibly vote with our wallets.

It’s reasonable to ask if some activist company, run by morons, will inappropriately create a profile on you based on deeply flawed algorithms. Then they apply their left-wing, anti-gun agenda to the wrong idea they have about who you are and, presto, you are not allowed to buy guns anymore.

At some point, do we need to draw a line in the sand instead of continue saying, “oh well, that’s just the way things are nowadays”? I just wish people would be a little bit more curious about who has their info and what’s being done with it.

Did you know, for example, that Fakebook can spy on you even if you don’t have a fakebook account and don’t have the app? If you install some app on your phone, let’s say a golfing game, the SDK for that game might include code that reaches out to fakebook whenever you open the app or turn on your phone. So fakebook can find out when your phone is on, who your contacts are, where you are located, etc., depending on what privacy features you have turned on. It’s creepier than most people realize.

Here is another fun thing: Homeland Security Dept associates online gaming with terrorism.. This is an example of how internet, digital data, modern pseudo-science driven by profit, and erroneous assumptions can converge in ways that aren’t so warm and fuzzy. It sure is fun to know that your kid might get arrested for being a terrorist because he was playing the wrong online game at the wrong time.

Although it seems a bit far fetched now, the day could come when someone uses logic like this: the data says you buy guns; the data says you do other things that gun owners typically do;, manipulated data shows that guns are bad; other manipulated data shows that gun owners are bad; therefore, according to our algorithms and other data, you are bad and should be arrested and locked up, or re-educated at one of our special camps. Either way, thanks to the internet and your willingness to let us spy on you, we can get the intel we need to wrongly conclude that gun owners (or book readers, or independent thinkers, or churchgoers, etc.) are enemies of the earth and need correction.

Well, this went far afield and probably off too far into the weeds but hey, that’s why we have a delete feature. :cowboy_hat_face: Thanks for reading all the way to the end. You think this is long-winded? You should see what it looks like if I really get going on a topic and spend several days on it. Cheers!

4

So the Norton deal doesn’t continue, correct? I got the email too but ignored it. I don’t want any subscriptions to anything. Just wanted to buy some guns.

5

I always thought that to be the case, but the point is debatable. @sixpic has me wondering specifically how this protection works and why involving an additional (4th party) in any retail transaction is all of a sudden necessary. To that end…

Does anyone here have firsthand experience exercising this “protection” from Norton Shopping Guarantee? If so, how did that work out?

I guess what I’m asking is just what exactly is this free “guarantee” and why is it even necessary? What does it cover or do for the consumer that their credit card company doesn’t already do? I mean, if I had an issue with a transaction I’d call my credit card company immediately, not Norton. :man_shrugging:

Parting shot: it’s easy to understand one or more entities are profiting in some way from these unsolicited guarantees -whether that’s Norton / Retailer / Credit Card Company / [All of the Above] simply harvesting personal transactional information or otherwise. It’s also easy to understand it comes at a hidden cost to the consumer. For me personally, I don’t need any additional unsolicited guarantees when purchasing from reputable retailers (e.g. PSA) and would like to see an opportunity for consumers to opt out.

6

Correct. The email states it is not a subscription and expires in 30 days.

Don’t worry though… you’ll get at least one more email close to the end of the 30 day window soliciting you too sign up for additional services and offerings. :frowning:

I honestly view the whole thing as a marketing ploy. Norton, LifeLock, et al get to promote their wares and PSA receives a kickback for all the folks that sign up for additional services.

7

Made a remarkably similar point to a Clemson Comp Sci Lecturer I was engaged to. Point: “If you’re not doing anything wrong, you don’t have anything to worry about.” Counter Point: “What if somebody else decides what is right and what is wrong.”

8

It ends after a certain number of days.

9

#1, it protects you the purchaser. #2, it also protects PSA. Many retailers use it.

As for how many use it? I have no idea.

If you are that concerned, see if your CC company makes virtual 1 time use numbers avaliable to you.

10

See this link for what the Norton Guarantee affords you as a customer.

11

Cool. Thanks, Anthony.

12

Just ignore it and move on?!? Seriously?

Everyone here should realize that the “smartphone” was conceived to be an integrated system of spyware devices that transmit data about you to third parties, with the intent to violate your privacy by selling information about you for profit. With that in mind, it’s not a good idea to purchase anything online using a smart phone if you’re concerned about privacy. Given recent events everyone should also be aware that the surveillance situation has evolved to the point that your credit card company and the shipping companies are creating a dossier on you and exchanging their information with other parties – some of whom are prohibited by law from creating such a database themselves. So they outsourced the database work in an effort to circumvent privacy legislation.

The smartphone was designed from it’s conception to be a spyware device, where installed applications have escalated privileges, with direct access to confidential information. There are some computer operating systems that give you more control over file permissions than a smartphone, and they have the potential to allow you to have more granular control over access to your personal information. I don’t own a smart phone because I know too much about how they work.

Back to the OP’s original concern – If you want to block Norton from seeing your PSA transactions, the solution is simple: script blocking in your browser. (Or on a more sophisticated level, blocking those third party entities by deep packet inspection.)

Simple browser based protection methods such as script blocking will easily defeat the Norton problem. All web pages contain spyware javascript that is intended to share confidential information about you with third parties. If you want to stop this, install a script blocking program and configure it so that no communication is permitted with any third party site without your express permission. These sorts of browser add-ons work quite well. I have been shopping online at PSA for years and I have never even learned of the existence of the Norton Shopping Guarantee… that is, until one day when I inadvertently turned off the script blocker and forgot to turn it back on when I went to PSA to make a purchase. At that time the behind the scenes communication between my browser, the PSA web page and Norton was successful and I received the email notices from Norton relating to my transaction. Like the OP I was also displeased by that as I don’t value the Norton “guarantee” as much as I value my privacy. So I turned the script blocker back on and now I verify that it’s working before going to the PSA site. Now I’m not having any further episodes of information being passed to Norton.

Moral of the story – use a script blocker and Norton isn’t a problem anymore.

13

Thanks for the added info on scripts. I did not know that I could block the info from getting to Norton by using browser privacy tools. I assumed that the business transaction was the source of the info, maybe from the credit card company, web site host, data company, etc. Maybe I’ll try Brave browser and see how that works.

I really miss Opera. On the old desktop PC I used Opera and had automatic referring turned off. That is a real eye-opening experience!! I got to see all the different web sites I passed through on the way to my bank, about six altogether. People don’t know that they are not going straight to the Target website, or Walgreens, or wherever, but are unwittingly checking in at all sorts of places. I hear that China is very busy buying all the intel it can get on Americans. Sad part is that collecting and selling this info is legal. Even worse are the flawed assumptions, defective software, stupid people, and just plain bad algorithms that all make judgements about us and make decisions about what we can and can’t do.

Examples? My home insurer at first wouldn’t issue a policy because the credit check said I live at a PO Box. Transunion has wrong info and I can’t get it fixed. Almost couldn’t get home insurance.

Another example. ATT was calling me about my overdue bill. I didn’t get a bill for a while. I got an envelope from some company in another town. Inside the envelope was—my ATT phone bill? Someone at ATT had edited my account and changed the billing and service address. It had been correct for 12 years. What if I only had a landline, it got disconnected, and I had to call 911? Another computer error that could have tragic results.

Third example. My count has a website for property tax info and personal tax. Personal tax is on cars. The county personal tax roll lists the people and their cars, taxes paid, and used to show the address and VIN for the cars!! I emailed the county and pointed out how much car thieves probably appreciated the help. An example of harm you can receive when people who don’t know what they are doing are in charge of sensitive computer data.
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Did you see the article about Target being one of the world’s leaders in surveilling customers, such that even law enforcement agencies consult with Target when they want to do better at spying on people?

And, I noted the Mk262 and that makes me think of Me262 but I assume it’s coincidence.

sorry for the long post. thanks

14

The exalted ones that run your financial system are now tracking your credit card purchases at gun stores for the benefit of their minions at ATFE. You have to keep up with your Marxist totalitarian masters folks.

15

Going a step further, you can’t trust your shippers now either. I noticed that several months ago (April 22 or so) whenever I ordered gun parts or supplies they ended up being delayed for an extra day by UPS as they traveled through specific “inspection hubs.”

Typically, whenever a parcel underwent an unscheduled “delay” that led to a revised delivery date, my packages were not only “delayed”, but sometimes “relabeled”, which is a euphemistic term for opened for inspection if not completely repackaged to remove all evidence of tampering. This has happened intermittently with FedEx but it is the norm with UPS. Thankfully PSA ships their uppers in boxes that are coated in plastic shrinkwrap, which appears too difficult for companies like UPS or FedEx to discreetly repackage to hide the fact that the packages have been opened for inspection. Since they can’t open them, they probably x-ray them.

With UPS it’s gotten bad – really bad. I recently bought some camera accessories on eBay and my package was delayed for several days in IL as the package passed through a processing station. What was amazing about this is that the package arrived in a brand-new FedEx-store box, and was professionally packaged with expanding polyurethane foam padding on the inside and professionally taped corners and seams. When I contacted the seller to compliment him about the professional quality packaging job, he told me that he didn’t package the item that way. The original packing materials that he used never even arrived at my house. It would appear that FedEx is routinely opening packages as they pass through IL distribution centers if your name is on “the list”, even if you’re not buying things that are firearms-related.

What really stinks about this is that if companies like UPS and FedEx announce that they have the right to open your packages for inspection, then you’re stuck with this policy if you choose them as a shipper.

As an ironic twist, we all know that the USPS photographs every package that goes through the mail, uses OCR to read the labels and associates them with your account (even if you don’t have an account, they associate your packages and the shipper with your delivery name and address on the package). Today the USPS has the data tracking so well computerized that they offer to sell you a service that allows you to be notified whenever someone ships you a package. Obviously they’ve got all of this in a tracking database and all of the kinks have worked out to the point that they know about every package that is mailed to me.

I used to not like using the USPS just becuase they track every parcel, and keep a database of who the sender and recipient are. I used to prefer UPS and FedEx because they didn’t appear to be maintaining such privacy violating data. Time have changed. Now UPS and FedEx are not only discriminating against shippers in the 2A industry, but they are opening your packages for inspection and keeping track of what has been shipped to you. That is the creation of a registry of not only firearms, but whatever else you buy. Government is prohibited from doing this but private companies are not. The latest twist is that your Constitutional right to warrantless searches applies to the USPS as a branch of government, but not to UPS or FedEx who are free to establish business policies that you have to agree to to utilize their services. The way the package surveillance systems are evolving, it would appear that the most privacy now exists when shipping USPS because they’re not allowed to search your packages… but I’m sure they’ll find a reason for opening packages and inspecting them too.