UPS: Fraudulent Signature Confirmation

General Discussion
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ups
Anyone else having problems with UPS drivers faking your signature when you pay extra to have adult signature delivery?

I’ve been having lots of problems where I have something valuable shipped to me, requiring an adult signature. Invariably the UPS driver just drops off the package and scribbles a forged signature on his electronic device.

I’ve been paying the shipper extra shipping charges to obtain an adult signature confirmation, and the shippers tell me that it costs them an extra $7 to pay for adult signature service … then UPS takes the money and doesn’t even attempt to obtain an adult signature. Instead of getting the signature that you’ve paid them to collect, they just forge a signature.

Taking money from someone under the pretense that you are going to provide a service, and then not providing the service, amounts to fraud.

Anyone else having this problem? I spoke to a friend today who had this happen to him too – both of us had it happen today.

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Never had anything like that happen, but then I’ve never lived in a sketchy enough area that I’ve ever willingly wanted to pay extra for shipping either.

This sounds wonderful. I actually have the opposite problem. It’s a complete pain in the a$$ when a retailer mandates a signature for a purchase and I have to wait around for the package to show up. On those occasions I miss the delivery and have to waste another day waiting it gets pretty frustrating -especially when tracking shows an attempt to deliver was made yet they never actually showed up. :angry:

3

Yes, I did. They tossed one thing on my deck and said it was signed for and handed to the customer. We had an item signed for and delivered to the homeowner, but it wasn’t delivered until the next day and they left it on the deck steps. When we called they tried to lie and say it was there the whole time. And just so ya know, one day delivery doesn’t mean one day any more. :rage:

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This is my experience too. All FFL packages have to have an adult signature. Well, i do this in my spare time, and work a full time job, so I can’t always be there to sign for them. Amazon has their garage door service, but UPS/FedEx dont. I would love to have my locked storage space be used by them to secure my packages in lieu of a signature. They know what my home business is. They know the importance of securing the packages. Just lock it up and mark it delivered!

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This isn’t a thread about convenience. If you’re looking at this through a lens that is focused on convenience, then you need to refocus it for a minute on white collar crime. There are two kinds of crimes to be concerned about in cases like this one.

FRAUD. It’s a problem for a business to entice you to give them money, promising to give you a service in exchange for taking your money, while having no intention of actually providing the service. That would be fraud.

FORGERY. It’s a problem if a UPS driver signs your name to a legal document, but you haven’t given him your power of attorney. That would be forgery.

The problem is the deliberate expansion of white collar crime in America. UPS’ official policy now operates using low-level defrauding of shippers and committing acts of forgery against recipients as their business model. This is a problem that goes beyond whether or not it is convenient to get to the front door when you hear the delivery truck pull up outside.

UPS now makes promises regarding adult signatures that they have no intention of keeping, and they take an extra $7 from the shipper for the promised service. The shipper gets cheated as they take his money. The recipient get cheated as they have to pay a special fee to the shipper to obtain restricted delivery. Of course UPS is not concerned in the least bit about this, it’s their business model. If you complain to the UPS driver about it, they peel off a little green sticker, hand it to you, and tell you to call UPS. The UPS practice of fraud and forgery is so pervasive that the drivers are trained in how to respond to the customer complaints.

So I called UPS, who has a very interesting viewpoint on the situation – the shipper paid for “adult signature” service, and they received an adult signature – but the “adult” was the UPS driver who as an employee of the courier service has a conflict of interest in signing for the package. The signature service guarantee implies that the adult that will be signing for the package will be a responsible adult living at the residence or working at the business – someone whose signature is traceable and actually has meaning, and is not just a horizontal line scrawled by the UPS driver; that scrawl type of “delivery confirmation” is not traceable to any recipient of the package, it’s just the UPS employee’s attestation that they did their job. In that case where the UPS driver attests that they delivered the package, they should certify their actions by signing their own signature, not by forging a recipient’s signature.

FedEx scans the back of my drivers’ license to prove delivery on valuable packages. UPS just forges my signature.

You may not think that this is much of a problem – if you ship packages that aren’t valuable, and you have a day job and you can’t arrange to be home – this could be nothing more than a convenience issue to you. But set aside for a minute your thirst for convenience and your unwillingness when it comes to rearranging your day to receive a package and imagine the inconvenience of not receiving a $20,000 parcel when the UPS guy puts an illegible scrawl in place of your signature and throws the package on your doorstep, then uses his phone to take a picture of the package … and then picks it back up and drives off with your stuff. This happens to real people. UPS denies you insurance, the shipper tells you that delivery has occurred at your address, you’ve lost the value of your shipment and everyone tells you to go file a police report for porch theft and an insurance claim.

I had the problem with a UPS driver forging my signature yesterday as I stood in the doorway and offered to sign for the package. He refused to let me sign, held up his device, and showed that he had already printed my name in the box – he was prepared for the restricted delivery irrespective of whether I answered the door or not. I emailed a friend about this, he had the exact same problem. Here’s what he wrote:

I had an argument with the UPS guy about his faking my signature too.
He showed me my forged signature he had scrawled. It was a horizontal line.
He gave me a sticker and told me to call UPS.
No DL scan. When I saw the horizontal line as my signature I told him to erase it and I would sign. He wouldn’t do it. If the shipment didn’t have the **** I would have refused the package.
UPS is signing my name and I did not give them power of attorney. That’s fraud.

6

Been saying PSA needs a store near Columbus, Ga for two years now…:rofl:

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Delivery of all types has gotten sketchy. I’ve had unsigned for certified US Mail just dropped off.
The tracking info provided by all of them has taken a step back. It’s like they realized they were giving us to much info, causing themselves more problems.

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If security is a concern then have them delivery the package to a drop point. Save yourself the $7.00. They require ID to pick the package up at the CVS I use.

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you gotta be kidding, right? you’d be OK with UPS dropping off your $20,000 package at CVS? Why in the world would you be OK with being forced to drive to CVS to pick something up when you paid for someone to deliver it to your house?

the problem is not about $7. It’s about paying to obtain secure delivery but not receiving secure delivery. you don’t get secure package handling when you expand the number of people handling the package. At the local drug store they don’t even secure the parcels.

i guess you’ll never understand what this is all about until you lose a package that you can’t afford to lose, and the shipper tells you that you don’t have coverage because there is a signature in the recipient’s signature box.

–

Certified Mail is just as bad now – I have had court documents sent by certified mail that had forged deliveries, returns to sender without any attempt at delivery, etc. The USPS is so bad that they won’t walk past the mail boxes in an office building and get in an elevator to go upstairs to get a signature for a signature required letter. The lazy bums just leave a note in the box saying that they won’t even attempt to come into the building and someone has to go to the PO to pick it up.

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Maybe you would be better off having it delivered to mommy and she can hold for you. You wouldn’t have to drive to a drop point that way; just leave the basement.

11

Hey honey, bring me some popcorn please.

12

Grabbed a scoop of Almonds that I doctored up. Damn, hit it over the fence with these ones.

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Didn’t have any popcorn so I settled on Cheetos :smiley:

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Someone opened my brother’s mail and stole his tag decal. He documented the theft, reported it, and ordered a replacement. They stole that, too. I wonder if someone was ever caught over at USPS.

On a completely unrelated note…
About 20 years back, I was sitting in a crowded DOT office waiting to replace a lost license. The lady at the front desk kept saying, “Please be patient with us. We are short-handed today. Thank you.” Then about 20 cops from multiple agencies and (I ship you not) an cameraman stormed the place and arrested that woman.
I just left. That was 4 hours misspent.

I live in the Bermuda Triangle. No, really.

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It’s not a basement … it’s a bunker.

I like Cheetos. :wink:

I guess some people are completely missing my point. I never asked for advice on how to bend over and submit to the will of a shipping company that’s not interested in providing the service that I’ve paid for. To be frank, I don’t take advice from submissive people.

I’m not looking for advice on how to ship packages, and I’m not someone who is going to allow a delivery service to dump their work responsibility upon me by telling me “we don’t try very hard to deliver your packages and we’re not going to provide the service that you paid for, so we expect you to go chase down your packages.” I guess if you’re the kind of person who will submit to that sort of abuse then you’d find that paradigm completely normal. I’m not like that – I expect to receive the services that I pay for.

I published the nature of the problem as a griping sort of public service announcement. If you’re willing to chase down packages, that’s your prerogative. But don’t expect everyone else to act like a whimp just because you find it normal.

Looking at the UPS tracking page a few minutes ago, I noticed a particularly interesting statement:

UPS Freight Less-than-Truckload (“LTL”) transportation services are offered by TFI International Inc., its affiliates or divisions (including without limitation TForce Freight), which are not affiliated with United Parcel Service, Inc. or any of its affiliates, subsidiaries or related entities (“UPS”). UPS assumes no liability in connection with UPS Freight LTL transportation services or any other services offered or provided by TFI International Inc. or its affiliates, divisions, subsidiaries or related entities.

That’s interesting. UPS has structured their subsidiaries such that UPS collects the fees, but a third party is responsible when delivery confirmation gets forged. If you try filing a claim, it looks like UPS is going deny payment as they point the finger somewhere else. Use this knowledge if it matters to you.

16

Pretty sure FedEx Ground is all contractors as well.

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To fix that just claim you never received package and would like to see the signature

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“just claim you never received package” makes fixing the problem of a missing package sound so easy! Is that advice in theory or in practice?

In theory: you tell them that’s not your signature and because they have integrity they don’t hesitate to give you a $20,000 insurance payout for your missing package.

In practice: They have no integrity and they deny your claim. Now you have to hire a lawyer and file suit.

I’ve had these companies deny claims before, even when I had an open-shut case against them. Why? They’re taking the calculated risk that it will cost you more to lawyer-up to recover the value of the package than your package is worth, and they expect that you’ll just take the hit when they screw you.

It’s probably wishful thinking to base one’s recovery plan on the trustworthiness of the company who has already committed the crimes of (a) fraudulent billing, and (b) forgery. I think I’m likely to be disappointed when I hope for them to honest-up and admit that they owe me $20,000. Most likely they’ll just tell me to piss off and I’ll be filing suit or taking the hit.

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Good Lord!

tripping

I suspect having a $20,000 dollar item shipped through the USPS/UPS/FedEx is not a reality for most folks. But since we’re bandying about the concerns of people who routinely receive personal packages valued in the five figures and beyond…

Are you okay with having one of the members of your security detail sign for it? Or does it always have to be the individual that paid for the signature service -seems legally that’s the only person with whom the contract is valid. What if your Security Guard or Butler scrawls an illegible signature and makes off with the box claiming to have never received it? Should UPS (or whomever) have to check ID (even better if they’re all Notary’s, eh?) and only allow the actual purchaser to sign? Perhaps make the delivery driver take a selfie together with the recipient holding the package and that day’s newspaper?

I believe a large majority of delivery drivers of every ilk are honest hard-working people. Sure there are bad apples that steal, but they don’t last long and are easily caught. So for those worried about their $20,000 dollar deliveries being stolen it strikes me as odd they wouldn’t consider dropping a measly $99 bucks on a security camera for the front porch and stop paying for BS signature services altogether.
:man_shrugging:

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Damn I’m out of popcorn and Cheetos :joy:.