The other day I was out shooting with a friend who is a retired K9 officer. He had some kevlar panels from one of his K9 partners that are a level 2. We placed one in front of a water jug and shot it with a AAC 5.7 FMJ - no penetration.
I took a few AAC - FMJ rounds and put them in a drill motor and filed the tips to a sharp point, about 30 degrees / side. I fired 4 of them into the panel and had complete pass through with all 4. From the way the water jug came apart, the bullets probably tumbled after penetrating the kevlar.
The officer was very impressed with the 5.7 Rock and it’s performance.
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That is not surprising. There are quite a few police officers that are not very gun oriented. It’s just a tool of the trade.
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Black dragon fang is the civvie go-to for this
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No they go in and out of stock. I generally try to pre-order or just pounce when they become available. They’ve also started making an even pointier one called Vampire Fang, and boy oh boy is it pointy.
Feed ok?
I haven’t had an opportunity to try it out yet, but I imagine it should be just fine
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Unless you were talking about the black dragon fang in which case that does feed fine
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lol, with a 2hr response time and no understanding of the laws, being efficient with a pistol is shooting for the stars… at least the veterans can use a carbine, that’s why they want to use 9mm PCC… tbh it would help
I know this is pretty common but I will also state that it’s not a hard-and-fast rule. I’m a martial arts instructor; Judo, stickfighting, knife work, wrestling, pugilism, etc. I meet a lot of cops and C.O.'s. The ones who I meet, the ones who do Judo/jits/whatever, tend to take their training very seriously. They spend personal time getting better at the tools of their trade, including shooting. I also meet a lot of cops in firearm specific contexts. They also tend to be competent with firearms.
That said, the whole discussion is an acute tangent from the OP point; “pointy bullets penetrate body armor better.” Which I find much more interesting (and true).
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Not surprising. For my personal SD 5.7 ammo, I’ve been hand loading with Fort Scott 40 gr. TUI solid copper bullets. They’re so pointy you could pull a splinter with them. 3A armor panels might as well be thin cotton t-shirt as far as 5.7 with Fort Scott TUI is concerned. Like it’s not even there.
Fort Scott 40 gr. TUI entry on new 3A panel
Fort Scott 40 gr. TUI exit on new 3A panel through 5" modeling clay backing (and a sheet steel container base).
As for you sanding down the bullets to be be more pointy, I can’t imagine that would be good for their accuracy. I get it as a cuff-of-the-sleeve test, but I wouldn’t trust them to be accurate or consistent at any distance. Still, it’s interesting and confirms the common knowledge.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
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Barrel length?
I am using a PSA Rock with the 5.2 inch barrel. The accuracy with the bullets that have the sharpened points is 2.5 to 3 inches at 50 ft . Good enough for SD/HD.
The 5.2" threaded barrel from the 5.7 Rock.
Average velocity for the 6.4 gr. rung was 1770. Average velocity for the 6.6 gr. rung was 1851 with a extreme top of 1994.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
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i have met retired cops who still wanted to learn how to shoot their glock, so i personally trained them… they will tell you themselves they are far beyond the skill level they were at any years of service
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it’s not even their fault… probably why you seen some take an “optional training class” so seriously… the bar is set too low and the economy is trashed.
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best advice, don’t over think it… don’t worry about the sights -the back plate is always there, learn to rely on it instead… keep both eyes open… relax your trigger pull, simply react don’t think
edit: also pointy bullets are dumb, who aims for someone’s chest instead of their legs??
Dumb would be aiming for anything other than center mass. A person shot in the legs can still return fire. The people in law enforcement are saying that it is becoming more common for the bad guys to be wearing body armor so, pointed bullets might have their application. However, any hit is better than a miss.
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I can’t find any reports tracking it for any events other than “mass shootings.” It seems that there is a definite uptick in mass shooting murderers wearing body armor. I couldn’t find any data for non-mass shooting assaults, murders, home invasions, etc. which included details about the assailant wearing armor.
Further, there have been some mass events where it was reported that the murderer was wearing armor but it seems he may have only been wearing some sort of tactical vest and the clueless media just reports what is most sensational and anti-freedom. So, while it is certain that there has been an increas in bad guys wearing armor, it’s difficult to say how much.
That said, body armor is now comparatively cheap and within the reach of even basement dwelling cosplayer wannabes. This is particularly true for Level III and IV hard/plate (“rifle rated”) armor, which tends to be less expensive than IIIA soft armor.
So practice your Mozambique / Failure-to-Stop / H&H.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
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body armor was why the Mozambique drill was created. Two to the chest, if the assailant doesn’t drop, one to the face.
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Back in the 60s, some of us had the misfortune of seeing the damage caused by tumbling bullets. Creating this same effect with a handgun could make it very effective in a defensive situation. Another result of using under stabilized sharp pointed bullets.
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