I was working up loads today using my Kel Tec Sub 2000, my Dagger and my Ruger Max9 pocket pistol. All equipped with Red Dot sights. Sub 2k Tru Glo $30, Dagger Vortex $275, Max9 Crimson Trace $200. I would say that the Max9 gave the sub2K a run for it’s money at 3-5moa. The Dagger could barely manage 10-15moa.
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Ready Rest, or Offhand?
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I always shoot mine offhand, standing, and I can make consistent hits on a 10 inch plate at 75-100 yards with both of mine. Could be the load, your specific gun, shooting, or the big brake bolted on there. Most pistols are going to be way more accurate than the shooter is anyway. To really test MOA you gotta rest it, test the gun not yourself.
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I do any accuracy testing rested
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Have you tried factory ammo??
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How is it with 115gr?
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Same here with the 10” plate, but 50 yards. All 3 of my daggers will consistently hit. Haven’t tried further out because the pistol range where the steel is, stops at 50.
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TLDR, try out different brand ammo. I had similar groupings as yours with CCI however I recently tried winchester and had much better results.
So I was running into the same problem. Ive always shot CCI blazer 115 or 124 grain and always had great accuracy. But with my Dagger I was getting similar results as you were. I spent hours trying to research what it could be. I’m not a sharp shooter but after thousands of rounds through various guns you know when its you you know when it’s the gun. I had it in my mind it was the twist rate since PSA uses a 1:10 twist on all their dagger barrels thinking the 1:10 was not great for lighter rounds. So I bought a Bear Creek arsenal barrel with a 1:16 twist. I took it to the range last night and at the time i didnt think much about it and I brought 100 round pack of Winchester instead of the usual CCI I shoot 95% of the time. The PSA barrel out performed the BCA barrel and was cutting holes into the target. I still want to do more testing but I was impressed with the accuracy that I don’t normally get… For whatever reason my dagger seems to like Winchester much more than CCI. Id basically go out and buy a handful of different brand ammo and test your dagger out and see if your results vary like mine did.
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I have accuracy issues with Blazer 115 with my Dagger S. Can’t hold a good groups at all, It was an issue on both my uppers. My friends dagger was able to consistently 66% a 4" plate at 50y. I think we were using 124s Winchester thru his gun.
I’ll have to try some 147 subs that are usually reserved for the subgun next time I hit the range
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Rested all with red dots.
Yes I have tried several factory loads. Decent accuracy. Honestly it hasn’t done worse than 8" at 25yds with anything. That day I was testing about 30 different loads combinations with 4 different 124 gr bullets, 90gr Lehigh’s, 3 powders and 2 different primers. Offhand shooting tells you absolutely nothing about the mechanical accuracy of a load/firearm combination. Once I have established the actual accuracy of what I am using then I add the me factor. I haven’t tried 115’s yet. I’ll probably get a 100 147’s to try and see what happens.
Yes I know that 4-6"@25yds is pretty good by most standards but my EDC Max9 pocket pistol can do under an inch at the same distance with ammo it likes.
On the Dagger specifically it seems to have a little slop in the slide/rail fit. Glocks and guns that use little tabs instead of rails aren’t usually very accurate anyway. I saw it’s role as a step up in ability and accuracy over my pocket pistol. The Max9 has set a pretty high bar I suppose. Shot side by side with my CZ Open Class pistol it is only a few hundredths of a second slower with the occasional C hit for a stage. I’ll continue to work with the Dagger to find something it likes. It’s a perfect companion for my sub2K.
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That slop in fitment doesn’t matter, the barrel lockup in the front of the slide and the top/bottom lug is consistent. Even my OEM guns have wiggle and rattle but they are dead accurate even when standing. And I shoot a random mix of ammo and haven’t noticed any being less accurate than another out of my two samples plus an OEM G34 with 12K rounds on it.
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I have a few 68gr Lehigh’s I might have to try in it. I’m kinda hoping this can fill my Enhanced Carry role partnered with my Sub2k. My pistol classifications are Enhanced Pocket, Enhanced Carry and Enhanced Duty.
One thing I learned is that none of my guns like Winchester Primers with identical loads. I had 2 piles of brass. One primed with Remington and the other Winchester. The Winchester primed rounds were consistently less accurate in every load everything else being identical. I would load 7 of each. 1 for the Chrono and 2 for each gun to group. I know 2rnds doesn’t tell a lot but I had 30 some combinations to get through.
I have to admit that the Dagger did pretty well with a few loads. 2.5" at 25 yds isn’t horrible. It’s just that my pocket pistol was better with everything. I kinda want this to be a step up from my pocket pistol in every way. A solid in between. My 357sig is absolutly ferocious at over 2,000fps. I’ll try a few more loads over the next few weeks and probably run some drills to see how it shakes out. I also have a $20 Black Friday"Match Barrel " with conventional rifling that I’ll probably run side by side with the threaded Dagger Barrel. Part of me likes the extended comped setup while another part likes the flush compact for carry.
I would be happy with 2.5" at 25 yards. But yeah 8" is not good. Thats what I was getting originally. I’ll have to do more testing
with mine. I know what you mean though. Like with my Sig P365 I was able to hit a man sized steel silhouette at 100 yards 5 times in a row with iron sights. I can usually hit it half the time with a full magazine. I have never been able to replicate that with my dagger. Maybe hit it once or twice per magazine. The dagger has a good red dot, full size grip, and a lighter polished trigger. By all accounts it should easily outshoot my micro. I’m going to venture out some day soon with more winchester 115 grain and maybe some 147 grain. The 147 should do well with the 1:10 twist but who knows. I’m thinking perhaps the dagger is more picky with ammo when it comes to accuracy, however It never once has malfunctioned for me after about 800 rounds or so.
And now it has its own holster. A Hybrid Shoulder/ OWB that I made for it. I just finished stitching it so I’ll let it dry till tomorrow before putting on the wax finish.
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I’m shooting fully rested for accuracy. Most of my loads were doing 6-8" at 25yds which isn’t horrible but my Max9, Sub 2K and CZ were all around 2" with the same loads. Fortunately they all seem to be good with this 90gr Lehigh load. The gun handles well. It was just an accuracy Wild Card. I also swapped out the barrel for a standard length conventionally rifled barrel.
